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Rules and Regulations
In every community rules and regulations are inevitable. We must strive to maintain our Rules and Regulations in the simplest and most understandable way possible, but for optimal performance of our network, it is necessary for all users to know, understand and observe these rules which they provide A structure for our virtual aviation organization.In these pages we have gathered our basic rules and regulations (see the menu on the left ).This way it will be easy for you to find the information you want.If you have comments, suggestions Or questions about the Rules and Regulations do not hesitate to contact us. We wish you a wonderful time using the services Of the IVAO network and hope to find it online.
1. Mission Statement
1.1 - The mission of IVAO (International Virtual Aviation Organization) is to provide a most realistic environment in flight simulation and air traffic control via the Internet, using the IVAN (International Virtual Aviation Network) at no cost and freely available to those who meet the requirements for membership. 1.2 - The main goals are to provide: 1) A highly realistic simulation experience within a friendly and fun atmosphere. 2) The required Internet services and 3) Infromation and training in real procedures for both pilots and air traffic controllers.
1.3 - When simulating real world aviation in the IVAO environment, we will avoid, at any cost, to simulate or be involved in real-world ethnic, political and religious conflicts and problems. The simulation of any type of aggression and war.VIVO is a read for entertainment and education where every citizen of the world, without any type of exception, is welcome to join in the fun and experience virtual aviation.
2. Privacy Statement
2.1 - IVAO collects and stores personally identifiable information; Your first and last name, e-mail address and the IP address used during your registration
2.1.1 - While logged in the following information is gathered and stored on your personal profile page and is visible to certain people, only: First and last name at time of login, time and date of Connection, IP address used for the connection and other information regarding their behavior while connected, not directly related to their personal data.In addition, Supervisors and Administrators can view the PC name, public and private IP address and the MAC address When it is connected, however, these data are not stored in our database.2.1.2 - The personal data stored in our database can be viewed by Supervisors, Administrators and staff of the IVAO Membership Department. Used during registration is visible to all registered users of IVAO in the public database.2.2.1 - IVAO ™ gathers and uses s Or personal information in order to operate the network and deliver the services you require.
2.2.2 - IVAO ™ shall, under Belgian law, allow individuals to exercise their rights of access to personal data in order to correct or erase them.
2.3 - IVAO ™ does not sell, rent or lease its user list to third parties. The Logistics Department ensures that all data collected in our database is protected as much as possible from a potential There may be a situation in which sophisticated hacks can be carried out that we can not protect ourselves from. In this case, the relevant actions will be taken, including informing the members whose data have been compromised.
2.4 - IVAO ™ will disclose your personal information without prior notice if required by law or in the case of good faith that such action is deemed necessary in accordance with legal edicts.
2.5 - As a member of IVAO, notifications are sent to all members in the form of NOTAMs via email.In this way, important information regarding changes in the Rules and Regulations, changes in the Executive Board, Medals assigned by the HQ and specific announcements related to departmental activities are communicated to our members. In any case we encourage our members to visit the IVAO forum which has a lot of additional information and issues that pertain specifically to divisions, membership in general If a member does not want to receive NOTAMs, he can request that his name be removed from the NOTAM mailing list.
Anonymous information may be shared with third parties who have signed an agreement with the organization, and IVAO shall ensure that this information does not contain any information
2.6 - IVAO may collect anonymous usage data for fine statistical, technical and investigative purposes. Identifiable personnel, including user account identification number (VID), individual names, IP address information and / or e-mail address information.
3.1 - The IVAO network is offered to you free of charge, depending on your adherence to the Rules and Regulations published on our website. Your use of the network constitutes consent directly to all The rules and requirements of IVAO.ORG reserves the right to modify the rules and requirements without notice to you.You are responsible for reviewing these Rules and Regulations on a regular basis.If a member fails to comply with the requirements or abuses of the Rules and Regulations, then the Executive Council shall have full authority over the membership of the Board of Directors. To determine if your membership is terminated and terminated.
3.3 - It is not allowed to restrict or inhibit another user from using and enjoying the services of the network, except in the manner and manner described in the Rules and Regulations. Of actions that could lead to the suspension of an account, you will find it here.
3.4 - IVAO does not guarantee that the IVAO service will be uninterrupted, secure, timely or error-free.
3.6 - IVAO strives to maintain a secure environment in the network. Users who are trying to access data that is not authorized to access, disseminate information that they are not authorized to broadcast or That alter and / or manipulate data referring to the IVAO network, will face serious penalties, and in some cases also a criminal complaint.
4.- General Regulations
4.1. - Registration
4.1.1 - The use of IVAO and the services of the IVAN is reserved only to registered users.
4.1.2. Anyone wishing to join IVAO must register at www.ivao.aero to become a "common member". A common member will receive a user ID and password to connect to the network.
4.1.3a - individual person is allowed to have only one registered account.
4.1.3b. Each organization is allowed to have a registered account subject to the regulations established in 4.7
4.1.4 - The registration of your membership must contain the real name and surname of the members. A false username will result in the removal of the account.
4.1.5 - To remain an active member of IVAO, members must be connected as pilots or controllers at least once every three (3) months. Connections as an observer do not count towards this requirement. Accounts without activity will be removed after nine (9) months from the date of registration. If a member´s account becomes inactive or has been removed, the member may contact the Member Department and request the reactivation.
4.1.6 - During the initial registration, members must choose which division they wish to belong to. A member may request the transfer of division at any time. In any case these transfers are subject to approval by the direction of the destination division and the members department.
4.1.7. During registration you must provide a valid and functioning email address to use as a means of communication with IVAO. It is the member´s responsibility to ensure that it works at all times.
4.1.8 - The minimum age for IVAO members is 13 years. Members must confirm, during registration, that they are 13 or older when joining IVAO.
4.2. - Software approved.
4.2.1 - Only approved software is allowed to connect to the network and for voice communications.
4.2.2 - The approved software can be downloaded from http://www.ivao.aero/network/so/
4.2.3 - Online traffic can be monitored using approved software.
4.2.4 - For voice communication between pilots and ATC the approved software is Team Spek 2.
4.3. - Connection.
4.3.1 - When connected to the network as a pilot, ATC or observer, members must use their first real first and last name which must be identical to those provided in the registration process. False names or names are not allowed. Staff members can connect using their approved staff ID while they are performing staff roles.
4.3.2 - Members must use the registered account when connecting to the network regardless of their location. Sharing accounts or passwords is prohibited.
4.3.3 - No member shall have more than ONE simultaneous connection to the network at any time. The exception to this rule is found in the next point.
4.3.4 - Staff members are allowed to have two simultaneous connections to the network on a temporary basis only to perform some valid task pertinent to their duties as staff. The reasons for the double connection must be entered in the comments section (Remarks) of the flight plan or ATIS. Valid staff tasks include software development or training sessions and exams. Supervisors may also have a double connection temporarily to perform supervisory functions when there is no other supervisor available to attend. Organizational account holders are allowed to have multiple connections as stated in 4.7. 4.4. - Online.
4.4.1a - Divisions located in a country without an approved ICAO language should use English.
4.4.1b. Divisions with an approved ICAO language should use English as the primary language. The official ICAO language can be used as a secondary for communications provided between pilots and ATC, however controllers must be able to control English.
4.4.1c - ICAO languages are English, Spanish, French, Arabic, Russian and Chinese.
4.4.2 - Communications between pilots and controllers can be via text, voice or both.
4.4.3a - Offensive and / or abusive communications, whether public or private, or the means of transmission, which create
5.1 - Before the connection.
5.1.1 - Controllers must have basic knowledge of aeronautical communications procedures.
5.1.2 - Controllers should be familiar with the procedures of the airspace in which they wish to control, otherwise, a Supervisor or IVAO Administrator could ask them to leave the position.
5.1.3. Drivers should use approved software and be familiar with this.
5.1.4 - If you are a beginner or unfamiliar with airspace, you must log in as an "Observer" and study the material for that airspace which you can find in our database or on the Division website at That airspace belongs to.
5.1.5 - As an Observer it is not allowed to use valid extensions of identifiers such as _CTR, _FSS, _APP, _DEP, _TWR, _GND, _DEL. You should use the _OBS extension instead. It is also not allowed to communicate via text or voice on any frequency used by pilots and ATC.
5.1.6 - In some airports FRA (Facility Rating Assignments) are in force. This means that in some airports ATC must have a specific range so that it can be accommodated to that position. An example of FRA may be: "The XXXX_APP position can only be taken by a user with Advanced ATC Trainee rank or higher." This means that if you have a range of ATC Trainee you can connect as _DEL, _GND and _TWR at that particular airport, however you are not allowed to connect as _APP and _CTR. If this applies you can find information about the FRA on the main website of the division to which the airport belongs. Active FRA can be checked here.
5.1.7 - Divisions may require members of foreign divisions to obtain GCA (Guest Controller Approval) before allowing them to connect in restricted ATC ATC positions. The divisions must announce their participation and publish the requirements on the division´s website.
5.1.8 - Before connecting, check who is online or use the approved software included in 4.2.4. We suggest, but it is not mandatory, to take the highest position available to which you are enabled and able to manage.
5.1.9 - Use only the valid extensions, these are; _CTR, _APP. (_DEP), _TWR, _GND, _DEL, _FSS.
5.1.10 - Prepare your ATIS before connecting to the network and fill it as soon as possible before and after assuming any traffic. The ATIS information must respond as real as possible to the information provided by the actual ATC position.
5.1.11 - We encourage ATCs to use the scheduling system available on the ATC Operations Department website. The programmed positions take precedence over the other members that connect in a position without having reserved it before. In any case, the reservation of the position will be valid as long as the user logs in within the first 15 minutes of the start of the booking schedule.
5.2. - Connection.
5.2.1 - Do not connect unless you are sure you can do it for at least 30 minutes.
5.3. - Online.
5.3.1 - Controllers are prohibited from controlling beyond their area of responsibility. For example, if a member is connected as a tower, he / she will not perform approximation functions.
5.3.2 - When a controller is connected in a position lower than the airspace that the member is controlling (eg a _CTR Area controller provides coverage to control a sector and suddenly an _APP Approach controller is connected) it must transfer Transit as soon as possible.
5.3.3 - Controllers should only use frequencies, call identifiers and any other information as published in the IVAO Database. This information must be updated by the relevant divisions. Any errors that have been found must be reported to the division staff. It is the responsibility of the division´s HQ to determine whether errors should be modified.
5.3.4 - Never use the Emergency Frequency (also known as GUARD frequency) at 121,500 mHz for anything other than an emergency situation. Informing members that an ATC position is online and asking a pilot to contact an ATC on a specific frequency does not constitute an emergency.
5.3.5 - In the attempt to contact a pilot, the controllers must make use of the FORCE ACT function and the control software chat. GUARD frequency should not be used. If a pilot does not respond using either of these two methods, it is highly unlikely to respond to any message on the GUARD frequency.
5.3.6 - Transit transfers between controllers must be performed using the TRANSFER function. Transfers must be previously coordinated via private chat or using the IVAO Intercom.
5.3.7. Controllers shall not attempt to take control over an aircraft under the control of another controller, informing it to be contacted by the FORCE ACT, GUARD or private message. The coordination must be initiated between both controllers to resolve the situation. p>
6.1 - Before the connection.
6.1.1 - At least, pilots should be able to take off and land at an airport.
6.1.2 - Pilots should be able to comply with the basic instructions of air traffic control such as turning to a specific course or ascending or descending to a given level.
6.1.3 - Pilots should contact only with the approved software and have basic knowledge of their use.
6.1.4 - Pilots should not be connected to the network while they are positioned on a runway or taxiway, as this could harm other aircraft.
6.1.5 - Pilot call identifiers must be three-letter (ICAO) with numbers / letters representing commercial airlines, for example; NWA1014 "Northwest Airlines Flight 1014" or represent a typical country registration, for example; Germany DAAYA, the hyphen ("-") should not be used. In the case of a military flight, the IDs are country specific and must be consulted. For more information on country-specific identifications, please click on the following link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aircraft_registration.
6.2. - Connection.
6.2.1 - For the enjoyment of all members, it is strongly recommended that you connect as a pilot only if you intend to complete your flight completely. Certain exceptions are accepted for long haul flights called "Long Haul" where pilots may decide to complete only one portion of the flight and then return to complete the remaining portion. In this case, pilots are invited to disconnect and reconnect as they fly over the ocean, where the possibility of a conflict is minimal. This rule does not apply to any tour that has its own rules.
6.2.1a - If disconnected during a flight to reconnect later (as described in 6.2.1), the user should check if there is any ATC connected in the vicinity. If there is an online ATC, the pilot must inform the controller of the location in which he wants to connect before doing so.
6.3. - Online.
6.3.1 - Pilots must have the transponder activated while in the air.
6.3.2 - Prior to each flight, pilots are required to submit a flight plan through approved pilot software.
6.3.3 - If you are new or not an inexperienced user, it is recommended that you endorse an observation stating that in your flight plan for air traffic controllers to know and can provide extra assistance if required. Br>
6.3.4 - In areas without air traffic control, pilots should monitor the frequency 122,800 mHz called UNICOM for their radio communications.
6.3.5 - In areas without air traffic control, pilots should regularly check if there is an on-line air traffic controller and contact the corresponding ATC if the situation so requires.
6.3.6 - Never use the Emergency Frequency 121,500 mHz (also known as GUARD) for no other situation than an emergency.
6.3.7 - Pilots should always collate and follow the instructions of the ATC unless they could jeopardize the operations of the aircraft.
6.3.8 - The simulation of a communication fault (responder in 7600) is not a valid cause to ignore the instructions of the ATC in case of a conflict and to the requirements of supervisors.
6.4 - Special Operations.
6.4.1 - Coast Guard operations, search and rescue missions, and military aircraft are examples of "Special Operations". As special operations are part of the real world of aviation, they are also part of the simulation, however certain aspects of special operations are prohibited on the network, including simulation of terrorism and acts of war. Likewise armed conflicts that exist in the real world, we do not allow the simulation of any type of aggression or violence in the network. For more information regarding our policy, please see the Rules and Regulations for Special Operations. 6.4.2 - Read the Special Operations Rules and Regulations. P>
7.- Rules and Regulations for Voice Communication
7.1 - The use of voice communications is recommended to increase the sense of realism, conversely, there are numerous reasons why some members do not use voice communications. voice and text communications are equally accepted forms of communications, and ATC can not refuse to serve a pilot who communicates by text At the discretion of the controller, text communications can be more efficient depending on workload, language skills and typing skills.
7.2 - Only the use of voice software is allowed for voice communications.
7.3 - Password protected channels are not allowed.
7.4 - The use of IVAO voice servers is permitted as long as you are connected to the IVAN with the approved IVAO software. In any case, IVAO voice servers can be used for meetings concerning IVAO issues without having to be connected to the IVAN.
7.5 - As an exception, channels may be opened by virtual airlines registered as "Company Channels", by special operations groups for coordination purposes and by staff members for staff meetings. Registered virtual airlines are permitted to create a company channel registered on the Team Speak server closest to the virtual airline´s registration division. The channel must be created with the following format; OACI_CC where OCAI is replaced by the airline´s three-letter ICAO code. For example; Netherline VA = NHL_CC, Topic: http://www.netherline.nl Description = (The VA may include a brief description here.)
7.6 - ATC services must use the ICAO identifier of the airspace and position they control for their caller ID, and must do so for the Team Speak channel and the connection itself, for example; EBBR_APP or KDFW_TWR. The use of a frequency, for example; 112,800 mHz or 113,100 mHz as a voice channel in the Team Speak to provide ATC services is prohibited.
7.7 - Users must create Team Speak channels on the cc.ts.ivao.aero server. However, users should not create channels that are registered, change the "maximum users" option or put them password. These options are reserved for supervisors, administrators, staff members or as expressly stated in these rules.
7.8 -. Deletion of staff channels is prohibited.
7.9 - Pilots must use the same ID to connect to Team Speak as the one used to connect to the IvAp.
7.10 - To play music and / or any other type of diffusion not related to the simulation, is not allowed and will be sanctioned a suspension of 48 hours.
7.11 -. Administrators of voice servers may, at their discretion, suspend a member who has violated any rule in this section. The duration of the suspension will be determined by the Executive.
7.12 - For training purposes, debriefing channels can not be password protected. However, the maximum number of users can be restricted.
7.13 - When you connect to an ATC position, you are allowed to create a registered channel. Note that when another member takes his place you must transfer or grant him the rights to administer the channel.
7.14 - Above all, be kind, speak clear and be patient with new members.
7.15 - Recording in Team Speak is not permissible under any circumstances except with the prior authorization of the Executive in general and the Director of Public Relations in particular for issues relating to Public Relations. p>
8.- Rules and Regulations for Divisions
8.1.1 - All countries qualify to be a division of IVAO. The division identifier will be in the IVAO-XX format where XX represents the ISO country code.
188.8.131.52 - Divisions may comprise more than one country, as defined in 8.3.
8.1.2 - There are two types: Divisions and Mini-Divisions.
8.1.3 - The power and final right to create, regulate or close divisions rests with the Executive.
8.1.4 - The Directors and Assistants of divisional Directors are appointed by the Executive. The divisional staff is designated by the Director and / or Assistant Principal. The Executive of IVAO reserves the right to refuse any appointment of a staff member.
8.1.5 - All divisions must have an active Director and Webmaster at all times.
8.1.6 - Divisions may be required to work jointly with the Executive for the purpose of providing reports and updating if required.
8.1.7 - Period of validity of the Mini-Divisions:
184.108.40.206 - One of the main objectives of a Mini-Division is to become a Division. In this context, on the anniversary date of the Mini-Division, and after an evaluation of the status of the same by the Executive, this will proceed as follows:
9.- Staff Rules and Regulations
9.1 - Requirements to apply
To apply to a staff position of IVAO the user must meet the following requirements at the time of application:
10. Rules and Regulations of Special Operations
11 .- Rules and Regulations FMC - Follow Me Car
12.1 & # 39; s Introductory
12.1.1 - The number of registered IVAO users has increased above 25,000, and we have hundreds of users online each day. The efforts of the Department of Training and the introduction of the examinations have caused a great advance in the quality of our pilots and ATC in the community. We believe that this is the time to increase online quality in general through careful implementation and introduction of the System of Assignment of Dependency Ranges (FRA). Carefully because we have mixed interests. On the one hand, we want to improve the overall quality of IVAO and on the other we do not want to discourage new and inexperienced users by raising the threshold too much. Taking into account the above, we have established the following guidelines for FRA´s.
12.2 - Generalities
12.2.1 - FRA´s should be applied primarily to international or major airports, thus making regional airports available for new and unprotected methods for the purpose of training and learning.
12.2.2 - These are guidelines on how FRAs should be implemented for ATC positions. P>
12.2.3 - These restrictions do not mean that, for example, an AS1 is not allowed to act as an Approach (APP) controller when it is not available, it is not, however, authorized to connect in an extension position. Leaving the _APP position available to the most experienced users who were to connect later.
12.2.4 - The following guidelines refer to how FRA´s should be used for pilots.
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At the moment we do not give recommendations for the restrictions for pilots. In special cases like Fly-in, exe, etc. Divisions may decide to activate FRA´s for pilots at certain airports. Because we do not want pilots to check the website every time they plan to visit each destination. The FRA´s for pilots should also be included in the ATIS of each airport, along with an alternative airport. P>
For example: & ldquo; FRA & ndash; No FS3 on SAEZ from 7.00 pm- 2100 Z (SAAR Alternative) & rdquo; View Users R & amp; R; Pilots & ndash; 6.3.6
Airspaces such as CTRs and regional airports can not be restricted to pilots, regardless of their rank.
12.2.5 - FRA´s can be specified in a sort of chronological table. With, for example, low restrictions on schedules with little traffic and more restrictions during peak hours. For practical reasons this listing should be standardized (always the same) and available to users of the division. Exceptions to the listing, for example, when a fly-in takes place, should be advertised by NOTAM via e-mail along with the fly-in advertisement.
12.3 - Implementation
12.3.1 & ndash; Divisions are responsible for the implementation of the FRA´s in their country.
12.3.2 - The Directors (DIR) and Vice Directors (ADIR) of each division will have access to the FRAs of all their countries. The FIR Heads only the FRAs of your FIR.
12.3.3 - Exceptions to 12.2.2 may be made where a high traffic density is anticipated, for example, during organized fly-ins. In these cases, for example _APP and _CTR should be reserved for ADC range controllers. Depending also on the availability of ADC controllers.
12.3.4 - FRAs have to be clearly advertised on the main page of the website of the division and should be explained very well to all users how they work.
12.3.5 - The staff members of each division should check that its users follow the established by the FRAs. They should talk to users who do not follow FRAs. If any problem occurs, ask for the assistance of a Supervisor. The Supervisors will follow the instructions detailed in the Supervisor Guidelines.
12.3.6 - The IVAO Headquarters (HQ) reserves the right to modify, add or cancel any FRA in its sole discretion, without any kind of statement of reasons. P>
13. Virtual Airlines (VA)
13.1 - To become an IVAO affiliated VA, your VA must be free of charge for members, and a nonprofit organization. ; to profit directly or indirectly through the use of the IVAO network, or even use the name of IVAO to advertise the company.
13.2 - Registered VAs are responsible for the logos and names that they send to the IVAO database. IVAO will not be responsible for copyright infringement.
13.3 - Your VA must use your assigned 3-letter code to use the services provided by the network, and only members of the IVAO VAS have the right to maintain the registered ICAO code. You can choose your own ICAO code during the registration process, assigned unless the code is currently in use. If the VA that is recording is based on a real airline, the actual code unless, of course, there would be another VA based on the same actual aerial using that code. In case you should choose another different code. In the event that your VA is not based on a real airline, it may happen that the code you have chosen during the registration process will be transformed into the code of a newly created real aerial, in this case you will have that they change their ICAO code at the request of the Headquarters Flight Operations Department (HQ). Note: The reference for actual airplanes is ICAO Document 8585.
13.4 - The registration form shall be be filled out and mailed by the CEO or actual Owner of the VA and not by another person, this belongs to the VA staff.
13.5 - VAs are required to fly per week at least a number of hours equal to the number of users multiplied by 2 (2 x Number of users = Required hours per week). This does not mean that each user must fly 2 hours, it means that the total hours flown by the company must be calculated with this formula. This is the minimum requirement to maintain member status on the VA System.
13.6 - VAs are required to update their membership details when they change (CEO, Due, Staff List, Pilot List, Website URL, Contact Email, etc.). emails due to the non-existence of an email address will result in in the removal of the VA from the database.
13.7 - The VA member will link to to IVAO using the logo provided to them during registration. The logo DUTY & will be provided by us.
13.8 - IVAO reserves the right to accept, refuse or remove the VA from the database and / or VA System without any type of notice or explanation if the Executive Board approves it. he decides.
13.9 - In order to affiliate the VA to IVAO, the carrier must have at least 10 active IVAO pilots, and you must send an email to the email address provided on the virtual aerolles page requiring activate it on the VA System.
13.10 - Companies that have no activity in the VA System for more than 4 months will be removed from the system. The company will continue to operate, in the IVAO database, but not the VA System. After 6 months of inactivity, the company will be removed from the database.
13.11 - Companies that do not have a contact email or a contact person in the database will be removed from the database.
13.12 - The VA System is copyright of IVAO. Any company active in it can use it for free. IVAO will provide support only with respect to problems with the pages, but will not provide support regarding the problems that exist between the companies and their members. & nbsp; p>
13.13 - A VA may change CEO / Due At any time as long as the New CEO / Due meets the following requirements: p>
VAs whose CEO / Due has the inactive account will be removed from the database if a new CEO / Due is not assigned within 15 days after receipt of the alert by the Department of Flight Operations.
13.14 - The VA must have and maintain a fully functional website at all times. A VA without a website will be removed from the database. If you plan to perform a major maintenance on the website or perform any other action that will result in you being offline for many days, please send an e-mail to the Flight Operations Director (FOD) and / or the Flight Operations Assistant (FOAD) .
13.15 - The VA website should have a page with the list or roster of pilots, and a page where VA staff should be kept up to date. For VAs using the VA System, these two pages must always be synchronized. This means that the same thing that is displayed in the VA System should be what is displayed on the website. If the VA has a CEO / Due to the VA System (generally who registers) and this differs from the one listed on the website in the staff section, the VA will be " removed from the database.
13.16 - If the website of the VA is not in English, at least some pages should be. The pages that must be in English are: The home or home page, the VA rules and regulations, the list of pilots, the list of staff and the page (s) related to the activity of the VA (for example, the statistics page).
13.17 - If the VA is active in other networks and / or allows pilots to fly offline, so they do not necessarily have to be registered in IVAO, the roster or pilot list must contain and clearly show those who fly in IVAO. The roster can be divided into two or more sections (IVAO pilots, pilots from other networks, offline pilots, etc.) or display near the name of each pilot or his / her name, the logo of the network to which it belongs with your VID. p>